Ep. 259: Trump Convicted

[00:00:00] If you're a California conservative, a libertarian, a moderate Democrat, believe in common sense,

[00:00:11] or just the sane person, this is the Political Podcast for you. It's the California Underground

[00:00:17] Podcast. What's going on everybody? Thanks for tuning

[00:00:28] in to another episode of the California Underground Podcast. I'm your host Phil,

[00:00:32] and as always with me, my trusty co-host, the best and fastest researcher in the West.

[00:00:37] We are coming to you, I guess, live on a very solemn day. It depends on how you look at it.

[00:00:43] Some people probably think this is like a joyous day in American history. Some people say it's

[00:00:48] solemn. It is definitely, it's definitely a day in American history. That's for sure.

[00:00:55] For those of you who don't know, Donald Trump today in his trial was convicted, found guilty

[00:01:02] on all 34 felony accounts. The first time that's ever happened in American history that a former

[00:01:09] president has been convicted or found guilty in a criminal trial after his presidency. So

[00:01:16] here we are. We had a show planned for you, and as is the world, this happened and we went,

[00:01:25] okay, well now we definitely have to talk about this is the biggest political story

[00:01:29] out there right now. So before we get started, how are you doing tonight, Gail?

[00:01:34] Well, you called me the best and fastest researcher and I had an hour's notice.

[00:01:40] And then nothing happened. Yeah, I mean, I did, we joked about it in the text, but then I was like,

[00:01:46] I didn't really say like, yes, we're absolutely going to be doing this topic until

[00:01:49] I like posted it and then you saw it. Right, I got out with everyone else.

[00:01:54] So yeah, I don't have a bunch of research here. So I'm going to be asking you a lot of questions.

[00:02:04] Obviously, I know what's happening with the trial. I get all that but from a legal standpoint,

[00:02:09] you are an attorney. Yes. And therefore, as we go through this, I'm probably going to be like, wait,

[00:02:16] what does that mean? I totally researched our other topic that we were supposed to talk about.

[00:02:21] I learned a whole lot. We had a lot of stuff like we had a really well researched episode.

[00:02:27] It was going to be all about special districts. We'll end up doing that episode eventually.

[00:02:33] No, I know it was when this came out, I was like, nobody's going to care about anything.

[00:02:37] Like it's either we talk about Trump or joining the podcast because literally

[00:02:41] because a lot of people have jobs that yes, they heard the news but they didn't necessarily

[00:02:45] get to like delve into it and everything. And so they're going to go home and want to be

[00:02:49] glued to what is happening. So it would cruel of us to not talk about it.

[00:02:56] Yeah, it would kind of feel weird if we were like the biggest political news probably ever to happen

[00:03:02] in American history happened just two or three hours ago and we went, hey guys,

[00:03:06] do you want to learn about special districts and what they are? People will be like,

[00:03:10] the heck are we tuning into? But no, this is what we do for you. We jump in.

[00:03:15] And yeah, we always try to focus on California.

[00:03:21] But I mean, presidency, this definitely matters. The presidency definitely has a big impact

[00:03:31] on California. So yeah, I mean, we have to talk about it. So

[00:03:36] where should we begin talking about what happened in the Trump trial?

[00:03:40] Should we just kind of give like an overview of like what happened or do you want to ask

[00:03:43] any questions right off the bat? Yeah, I give it like some background.

[00:03:47] Sure. Okay, I'm going to try and do this as simply as possible.

[00:03:55] So background, the DA for Manhattan District in New York City, Alvin Bragg,

[00:04:02] we're going to watch some of his press conference a little bit later.

[00:04:07] He came up with this charge against Donald Trump for falsifying business records related

[00:04:12] to hush money that he paid to Stormy Daniels. This came out of the fact that Trump had an affair

[00:04:20] with Stormy Daniels while he was married, and they didn't want to let this come out,

[00:04:26] I think around election time. So they were kind of they came to an agreement and they

[00:04:31] settled and he said, here, I'll pay you a bunch of money. You just don't say anything.

[00:04:35] Right. There was two.

[00:04:37] Yeah. And Stormy Daniels broke that agreement and went ahead and told the world that she

[00:04:41] slept with Donald Trump. I don't know how she's not liable for breaking an agreement like that.

[00:04:47] But that's a whole different story. So I just thought of a thing though, it's like, okay, so she

[00:04:53] wants to admit that she had an affair with Donald Trump of all people, but admit that you had an

[00:04:58] affair at a written order patient and then also it's like why now? Why yeah.

[00:05:05] Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, if you don't know about who Stormy Daniels is, she is a porn star. So

[00:05:15] she slept with that's what she alleges they slept together. We're not sitting here trying to defend

[00:05:22] adultery or infidelity or anything like that. But yeah, so that's where it all

[00:05:28] it all came back. So Stormy Daniels has sort of been surfacing and she's going to float

[00:05:31] it on the the perimeters of the Donald Trump world since 2016. And then it was discovered that

[00:05:41] the Trump enterprise, the Trump business had written off the hush money on the business records

[00:05:50] which they classified it and I forget what they classified it as,

[00:05:55] but they classified it incorrectly. So when you file for tax or you file your business records or

[00:06:03] stuff like that, they found that he had paid Stormy Daniels and they said, oh, well, you falsified

[00:06:09] you this isn't what you said it was. And that's where we are. I mean, that's basically the

[00:06:13] gist of the entire tax code for paying off Mr. Says. We want to let us lie, but

[00:06:20] I'm just kidding. It just it sounds so kind of crazy and absurd when you think about you're like a

[00:06:28] former president. It's going to be a great movie. I mean, this is isn't it? I mean, some people say

[00:06:35] it's it's not too dissimilar from like when Clinton paid off Paula Jones to like go away

[00:06:41] and shut up. I guess Bill Clinton classified it correctly. He should have called up Bill

[00:06:46] Clinton and said, hey, how do you classify this on business records? Because I didn't do this correctly.

[00:06:53] So that's where we're at. That was basically a try. There's 34 counts. They all sort of were the

[00:07:01] same thing, false fine records or whatever. I'm not going to go through every 34 counts because

[00:07:06] it's not really that important to the show. So Alvin Bragg brought this case

[00:07:12] and a lot of legal experts are like, I don't know if you really have a case here. I mean,

[00:07:19] you're really kind of like you're kind of grasping at straws here. Well, don't let a man

[00:07:25] always see how the case. Yeah, spoiler alert. He did have a case.

[00:07:32] Don't let a DEA of Manhattan. Don't let that deter you because I didn't look this up and maybe

[00:07:42] I should have looked this up before we hopped on. It's no secret that Biden probably won Manhattan

[00:07:48] by a landslide. It wasn't close when it came to the political lines of what happened in 2020. So

[00:07:55] we're painting the narrative here. We're painting what's going on here. So you have a Manhattan

[00:08:00] DEA bringing charges against Donald Trump. They want to try the case in Manhattan. Now,

[00:08:07] when you go to trial, there's this thing called voidir. It's a fancy term for when you have to

[00:08:14] select the jury. And it's a long process. You have to go through it and you have to

[00:08:21] you bring in dozens and dozens and dozens of people because you have to go through a bunch

[00:08:26] of people before you seat like 12 jurors. And the process is you go through you kind of vet

[00:08:32] people. Okay, what's your name? What's your job? What do you do? And there's like a whole

[00:08:35] science behind this. Like there are people who make like tons of money being jury experts.

[00:08:43] And like you can you bring them in and they'll sit in on voidir for you. And they'll tell you

[00:08:48] like, well, this person has this job. So they'd be sympathetic. This person, you know, identify

[00:08:54] so that they would be sympathetic. Like so you're trying. What's that? I think I need that

[00:08:59] job. Judging people in a jury box? Yeah, well, it pays really well. So if you can

[00:09:07] become a jury expert who helps with that, like most cases are one or lost in jury selection.

[00:09:14] Because if you get a favorable jury, then you're already off to a good start because the jury's

[00:09:20] already in your favor. You kind of an idea of what they're going to do. So imagine now

[00:09:25] you're in Manhattan. You got to pick from people who live in Manhattan to be jurors in a criminal

[00:09:33] trial against Donald Trump. What do you think the odds are that those jurors are not going to be

[00:09:40] biased? None, there's like they're going to be biased. There's 100%. Right. So it's and it's

[00:09:48] also tough because this is also happens in like celebrity cases as well as happened, I'm sure

[00:09:53] in the Kyle Rittenhouse case as well, like well known cases like this are hard to pick juries

[00:09:58] because people are already prejudiced to the story. They already know what's going on.

[00:10:01] So if you mix the fact that they're already prejudiced against the person, the defendant,

[00:10:07] and then they're prejudiced against the story of what's happening, it's going to be pretty

[00:10:13] hard to put together a jury that is not completely skewed against Donald Trump.

[00:10:19] I'm really sorry. So I know today in text, you brought up the OJ Simpson trial and said,

[00:10:26] you know, you were too young to even care of what was going on about that. But you imagine it's

[00:10:31] kind of like similar. I actually remember hearing the constant news because I was my parents

[00:10:37] were watching this while I was watching it, but I remember hearing the constant news about the

[00:10:40] jury trials. And that was very fascinating to me. Like that's why I actually learned

[00:10:46] that I'm like, Oh, this is how they do it. Yeah, it's yeah, I wasn't old enough to remember

[00:10:54] like sitting there watching the OJ Simpson. So I'm not saying I'm not implying that I'm just

[00:11:00] saying I know you're not. I'm just saying I don't particularly remember sitting in front of

[00:11:05] the TV watching the OJ Simpson trial. So I imagine like today when this all came out,

[00:11:11] I was actually in my office watching it. And I was like, I'm surprised more people in a law firm

[00:11:17] were not on top of this or watching. You guys were all like there, like, did you have soda

[00:11:21] and popcorn? And you were just like, I thought about it. I was like, I'm surprised more people

[00:11:26] aren't like huddled around my TV being like, what's going on? Like, what's the jury? I mean,

[00:11:30] you know, people lawyers are busy. We put on blinders. We just kind of,

[00:11:34] we put the world at this. Sorry, we're getting way off topic, but way off topic.

[00:11:39] That like a law firm would be like, Oh my gosh, because like you said, this is going to be

[00:11:43] one of the biggest trials in history of like our life probably. Yeah, he's got a few other

[00:11:48] criminal trials that may be bigger. But like this is this is one of the biggest things that

[00:11:56] it's this has never happened before in the history of America. You've never had a former

[00:12:00] president be convicted for a crime after he was president. So this is, you know,

[00:12:06] we're in uncharted waters. Like, Secret Service has to figure out like,

[00:12:11] what if he has to go to jail? Like how do we protect the former president while he's in

[00:12:16] jail? Do we have to stay with him all the time? Like, there's so many issues that nobody's ever

[00:12:21] considered. And constitutionally, as far as I know, you can still be president from jail.

[00:12:27] I don't think that's that's a bar and thing. So he could be elected from jail.

[00:12:32] But we're now we're getting off topic. We'll talk about this one more.

[00:12:35] I have that question. So it was

[00:12:38] maybe someone's Yeah, someone probably has that question. Can you be president from jail? As far

[00:12:41] as I know, I've never heard any constitutional argument that you cannot be president from jail.

[00:12:47] Doesn't say that Congress from jail, you can run for Congress from jail. So why not be

[00:12:53] president from jail? Could you imagine he's like in his jail cell and they set up like a

[00:12:58] little mini oval office with a desk and stuff. And he has to like sit at his desk and like they

[00:13:03] have to bring him papers and stuff. Oh my gosh. Really off. Like I said, off the top, this is

[00:13:13] this is an episode where we're reacting to this as much as all of you are right now.

[00:13:20] This is the thing about doing this live is that we we are reacting as much as you are

[00:13:24] and stuff is still coming out. Anyway, so back to the trial, you have this most likely

[00:13:31] biased jury out of Manhattan. There was one story of a girl who got excused from the jury because

[00:13:37] it was too like her social media was all like I hate Donald Trump and stuff like that,

[00:13:43] which obviously is prejudicial. So I always was I was thinking like, how many more people

[00:13:49] do you think were on that jury who just didn't say anything about how much they hate Donald Trump or

[00:13:56] was on their social media? So well, it's like either way, you can't really say. I mean, it's

[00:14:04] unlikely that there was a MAGA Trump or in there but but if you were you couldn't say

[00:14:12] what you just sort of be like, oh yeah, Donald Trump president cool cool. Speaking of Trump,

[00:14:18] he just texted me and said, did he now from Trump all help just broke loose in all caps.

[00:14:24] I was convicted in a Rick trial. I now need you I need you to read this now.

[00:14:31] Sorry, Mr President, I'm in the middle of a podcast about what's real quick since you got that

[00:14:36] text just now. When read broke like yes, because people were literally rushing to

[00:14:45] donate to Trump and it just couldn't handle the overload of donations and it just crashed.

[00:14:51] That's interesting. Yes, yeah. Well, we're going to get to that in a little bit what the ramifications

[00:14:59] are all shut up. We're all over we're just so excited. This is such an exciting episode.

[00:15:04] And we have a text from RFK Jr. Nothing from Trump.

[00:15:08] Yeah, RFK is like I'm the only person not convicted of a felony in this case.

[00:15:15] Anyway, so we have the trial.

[00:15:20] Bias jury judge. I was looking at it before let's see there was I want to get this correct

[00:15:29] because there was an issue with the judge in terms of bias. What was it?

[00:15:37] Proging him to what's the legal term when you excuse yourself from a case because of a bias.

[00:15:44] Recuse yourself. Because I did see that they were trying to get him to do that.

[00:15:50] Right, I think his daughter worked for a firm that helped Biden or worked for the

[00:15:56] Biden campaign, which I guess that's a stretch. I mean, depends on it does the dad like Biden.

[00:16:07] I mean, I don't know if we figured that out as well.

[00:16:11] So that was one thing there, you know, but the judge did some weird things in this case,

[00:16:16] like the jury instructions, they weren't allowed to go back with your instructions.

[00:16:19] When you go back in the deliberation room, you get to hold on to jury instructions.

[00:16:29] And that means like, so you look at all the evidence in front of you,

[00:16:34] and you look at these jury instructions and the jury instructions will literally say like,

[00:16:39] if the person is found to meet this element and this element and this element, then you should

[00:16:44] convict. They weren't allowed to bring the jury instructions back for some reason.

[00:16:51] And this is 34 felony accounts, they weren't allowed to bring the jury instructions back.

[00:16:55] So I don't know how they were supposed to remember all of the different

[00:17:00] I'm not sure how they were supposed to remember all the different elements.

[00:17:03] I mean, that's like, that's like when you study for the bar,

[00:17:05] you have to remember the elements to like 34 different types of laws.

[00:17:10] And you're asking jurors to remember elements, which is already hard enough.

[00:17:13] So there's a lot of shadiness in terms of how this went down.

[00:17:18] And most legal minds who are not in the, you know, right in the barrel for

[00:17:23] Biden and hate Donald Trump, most normal lawyers look at how this has really been

[00:17:29] put out there. And I'm not a criminal defense lawyer. So I'm excuse my expertise,

[00:17:34] but at least I know what goes on in trials. A lot of this is very unusual to be doing in a

[00:17:40] criminal trial. So the jury instructions is definitely something that is head scratching.

[00:17:47] They sent them back with just a laptop with all the stuff on it and only one like one person can

[00:17:53] control the laptop. So that's a little fishy as well. Obviously, the supposed biased of the

[00:18:03] judge who was denying motions that probably made sense on the face of it.

[00:18:08] So it just seemed like throughout the whole process of this trial, for lack of better

[00:18:13] turn, it does seem like Trump was getting railroaded in Manhattan. And that's where we're at.

[00:18:19] So they came back today, they returned 34 counts found guilty on all 34 counts.

[00:18:27] And now we're at the next step. We have a person who's running for the presidency of

[00:18:32] the United States who has a very good shot of winning presidency of the United States.

[00:18:37] And he's been convicted on all these crimes. And now where do we go from here? Well,

[00:18:43] sentencing in July, they'll figure out like how what his sentence is going to be.

[00:18:49] I was reading in this AP article. This is actually pretty interesting.

[00:18:56] I wish I could highlight on this article. Usually I can, but

[00:19:03] from AP it says a big question now is whether Trump could go to prison.

[00:19:07] The answer is uncertain. Judge Juan M. Merchant sentencing for July 11

[00:19:14] just days before Republicans are set to formally nominate him for president.

[00:19:17] The charge of falsifying business records is a class E felony in New York.

[00:19:22] The lowest tier of felony charges in the state is punishable by up to four years in prison,

[00:19:27] though the punishment would ultimately be up to the judge. There's no guarantee he would give

[00:19:33] time behind bars. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg declined to say whether prosecutors

[00:19:37] would seek prison time. Interesting. It's unclear to what extent the judge may factor in

[00:19:43] the political and logistical complexities of jailing a former president who was running

[00:19:47] to reclaim the White House. Other punishments could include a fine or probation. It's possible

[00:19:53] the judge would allow Trump to avoid serving any punishment until after he exhausts his appeals.

[00:19:59] Trump faces the threat of more serious prison time, three other cases he's facing,

[00:20:03] but those cases have been bogged down by appeals and other legal fights.

[00:20:07] So there you have it. So he could go to prison or it could be a fine or probation.

[00:20:13] It's interesting Alvin Bragg already said that they're unsure whether they're going to

[00:20:18] seek prison time because you would think the whole thing is you want to put him behind bars.

[00:20:22] We're getting started in January.

[00:20:25] Yeah, what's that?

[00:20:27] I said four years starting January.

[00:20:29] Yes. Can he be put in bars specifically for four years starting in January?

[00:20:38] There was something other, okay, appeals. And this is the next question that everyone's

[00:20:41] going to be asking, which is obviously it's going to get overturned on appeal.

[00:20:46] I wouldn't say obviously, right? Like I'm not going to when it comes to courts.

[00:20:50] Right. But obviously students try, although I think he's already said it.

[00:20:53] Yeah. They obviously are going to try. I'm sure they were already prepared.

[00:20:57] I'm sure they already have people working on it right now at the law firm.

[00:21:00] They already got merged. You go buy your shirt tomorrow.

[00:21:03] They already got appeal merch that you can buy to support the cause.

[00:21:07] I'm never going to say obviously a lot of people out there influencers are probably like,

[00:21:11] oh, it's going to get overturned on appeal. Obviously it's going to get overturned on appeal.

[00:21:17] Courts are a wild card. I will just say that. It's what I tell my clients.

[00:21:23] You go to court. You have the best case in the world.

[00:21:27] Doesn't matter. A judge can just have a bad day, not like your case. Disagree with you.

[00:21:32] Doesn't matter. So I would say it has a strong chance of being overturned on appeal,

[00:21:39] but I wouldn't say obviously. Let's see. Oh, here it is. The defense has accused the judge of

[00:21:45] by citing his daughter's work heading a firm whose clients have included President Joe Biden,

[00:21:49] Vice President Kamala Harris and other Democrats. The judge refused the defense's

[00:21:54] request to remove himself from the case saying he was certain of his ability to be fair and

[00:21:58] impartial. Let's see. Trump's lawyer may also raise an appeal to judges ruling limiting the

[00:22:04] testimony of a potential defense expert witness. The defense wanted to call Bradley Smith,

[00:22:09] a Republican law professor who served on the Federal Election Commission to rebut the

[00:22:13] prosecution's contention that the hush money payments amounted to campaign finance violations.

[00:22:20] The defense may also argue that jurors were improperly allowed to hear sometimes

[00:22:24] graphic testimony from porn actor Stormy Daniels about her alleged sexual encounter with him in 2006.

[00:22:31] The defense unsuccessfully pushed for a mistrial over the tawdry details prosecutors elicited

[00:22:36] from Daniels. Defense lawyer Todd Blanche argued Daniel's description of a power imbalance

[00:22:40] with the older, taller Trump was a, quote, dog whistle for rape relevant to the charges at hand

[00:22:46] and the kind of testimony that makes it impossible to come back from.

[00:22:49] So he said it was, quote, a dog whistle for rape. So

[00:22:59] when you put a witness on a stand, there are rules of what the witness can say.

[00:23:06] And usually this is determined in pre-trial, which is called motions and limine.

[00:23:12] So this is without the jury there. You go in front of the judge and you say,

[00:23:15] your honor, this witness is going to come up. They're going to talk about this.

[00:23:20] They're going to testify to this evidence. This is why they're testifying. However,

[00:23:26] we would ask that they don't testify about X because it's prejudicial. It's inflammatory.

[00:23:34] It doesn't help our case. It may unduly prejudice the jury saying, put stuff in

[00:23:43] the jury's mind. So they put guardrails on like when witnesses can come up and what they can talk

[00:23:48] about. So what they're alleging is that the prosecution literally put Stormy Daniels on and

[00:23:55] asked her these questions to paint a picture that Donald Trump sexually assault, like he

[00:24:05] came onto her and forced himself on her. So that had nothing to do with the case though.

[00:24:11] The case was all about falsifying business records. So the prosecution got away with

[00:24:17] putting this out there to the jury, which paints the defendant in a bad light already.

[00:24:22] And it doesn't have anything to do with the case at hand. Now most judges would probably say

[00:24:28] they'd probably stopped and say like, well, this has nothing to do with the case,

[00:24:31] objection relevance. That could be something right there. So there's a lot of things.

[00:24:37] Yeah, you give an emotional like obviously the jurors are like that's an emotional

[00:24:45] thought right there. They're like rapist.

[00:24:48] Rapist, yeah. Should be charged.

[00:24:51] You sorry when it is on one night. She is on one tonight. I don't know what is up with her.

[00:24:57] Yeah. I mean, here's a hypothetical example. So if you're in trial and I'm trying to think

[00:25:07] of it the example, if you're on trial for I'm trying to say something like

[00:25:15] a car accident or something, you're trying to show the person is liable, right? You're

[00:25:19] trying to say like, well, this person clearly ran the red light or something like that.

[00:25:22] And then all of a sudden you get into this whole thing about like, but also is it true that you're

[00:25:29] like you're a drunk and you beat your wife and stuff like that? Like, how does that look to the

[00:25:34] jury? You're like, well, this guy's kind of like a scumbag. So of course he's going to be like

[00:25:39] the beginning of Aaron Brockovich movie. I don't know how accurate that was for life,

[00:25:43] but that was the Aaron Brockovich movie is basically she got an accident. She was hit,

[00:25:47] but then they paint her as this like this woman with multiple baby daddies who can't hold

[00:25:51] down a job and like, you know, like so she needed this car accident. Yeah.

[00:25:58] Is that's a fine line in cases? You're not supposed to really test or kind of get into

[00:26:05] character evidence unless it has to do with whatever the crime is or whatever your case is about.

[00:26:13] So that's sort of the lay of the land. They're going to file an appeal.

[00:26:18] I would expect that they're going to say you should stay sentencing because

[00:26:27] because of X, Y and Z. This is an emergency is actually in circumstances.

[00:26:33] And they'll stay sentencing as long as possible during the appeal so that he can't be sent

[00:26:39] into prison delay as long as possible probably past November.

[00:26:44] And we'll see where we go from there. So what happens when, okay, last thing and then we'll get

[00:26:51] into Alvin Bragg. When you file an appeal, you can ask for a stay of the verdict or the judgment

[00:27:00] meaning like don't put this into effect. We want to appeal because we think this is wrong.

[00:27:06] So the appellate court can issue a stay, which means everything stays the same way.

[00:27:11] Nothing happens. No one goes to jail. Veric doesn't get imposed or punishment doesn't get imposed.

[00:27:19] So that's where we're at. Whether they're going to give them a stay or not, who knows?

[00:27:23] Again, this is New York so keep in mind this appellate court is still in New York.

[00:27:28] So I would like to think but appellate judges when they get to the bench like up

[00:27:34] when they get moved from trial to appellate, usually they're high quality judges.

[00:27:41] They've been around for a long time. They get vetted so we'll see. So that's where we're at

[00:27:48] litigation wise. Supervinder we elect judges in California.

[00:27:53] We do elect judges. So keep that in mind when you're filling out your ballots

[00:27:57] in November. Don't skip over judges. Make sure you review who is running for judges.

[00:28:03] So any questions before we go on to Alvin Breck?

[00:28:09] How long if they say like we're going to appeal, how long if they're allowed,

[00:28:18] if they're granted this permission, how long do they have to then file the appeal?

[00:28:23] Usually you file notice of appeal and then I think it's within, I mean in California I

[00:28:30] think it's within 30 days. So they want you to get the appeal up in the appellate court.

[00:28:36] That doesn't mean they're going to hear it right away. Usually you write these long briefs that

[00:28:40] are full of research and facts and all that stuff and especially a case like this there's

[00:28:43] going to be a lot of stuff that they have to put on appeal. So they'll get it done pretty

[00:28:48] quickly. They'll get the briefing done and then they'll set it for oral arguments months down

[00:28:54] the road. So hypothetically it could be the rest of the summer, it could be maybe fall we hear when

[00:29:05] they're going to go but they could also argue you know the other side, the respondent who is in

[00:29:10] this case the district attorney, they could say no we need to hear this as fast as possible.

[00:29:15] Obviously this is like exigent circumstances. I don't know if it's true that you really

[00:29:20] need to say it's exigent circumstances for a guy who falsified business records. It's not like

[00:29:24] you know he's a serial killer out on the loose. But they tried this so I wouldn't be surprised with

[00:29:32] whatever else they're going to try. And then you read that there was something about maximum

[00:29:40] four years in prison is that oh that's overall or per count? Per count. So what's 34 times four?

[00:29:50] Something. Something it's a big number. 132 months. It would be I think it was four years for every

[00:29:58] count he'd be in jail for the rest of his life. Well yeah. So that's where we're at. Any thoughts

[00:30:06] about the case right now? When I said the worry got on you guys please stop saying I'm going to

[00:30:14] vote for a convicted felon for the first time please stop. You're not getting any favors

[00:30:20] for Trump I promise you. I know it sounds badass right now. Or you think it sounds badass but

[00:30:31] I don't think it's, I don't think it's, you don't want to be echoing, I guess they're trying to

[00:30:38] take it away from the left who is already, we already know the left is going to run with this

[00:30:42] and say you know Donald Trump was the first president of a convicted felon running for

[00:30:46] president and blah blah blah. And they're going to run with that ad nauseam until November.

[00:30:50] Yeah I like it's just going to be, it's going to forever now convicted felon

[00:30:54] President Trump like that's going to be his new title forever. Of course if it gets overturned

[00:31:01] on appeal then the conviction is overturned and it doesn't apply anymore but

[00:31:06] it's about

[00:31:08] A convicted felon president.

[00:31:12] Former formerly convicted president. This was something I want to show really quickly this

[00:31:19] popped up on my X account and this is a, I've seen them before interactive polls

[00:31:31] so this was April 15th Trump's approval rating was plus one. May 16th he was plus a now post

[00:31:42] conviction he's plus 18 on Biden. Okay so maybe, maybe the voting for convicted felon is working

[00:31:50] maybe I take back what I said. Maybe. Oh geez carry on. Carry on with what you're doing.

[00:31:58] So I, we'll talk about once we go over everything I think we can talk about where

[00:32:05] do we go from here and what do we think the ramifications are. Oh gosh that I don't think

[00:32:09] that was part of what they were going after. Hold on. Anyway their whole thing was that this

[00:32:17] this was a way to corrupt the 2016 election. Do they really think? Okay do they really think

[00:32:25] Donald J. Trump if news came out that Donald Trump had slept with a porn star

[00:32:35] and cheated on his wife who's a former supermodel playboy whatever do you think that would have

[00:32:43] hurt his chances in 2016? No a lot came out there was like remember if I grabbed them

[00:32:50] by the video that came out. Right like they, he won regardless of the Billy was a Billy Baldwin

[00:33:00] tape the Billy Bush. Billy Bush not Billy Baldwin. So he thinks that this whole conspiracy to

[00:33:12] shut Stormy Daniels up somehow corrupted 2016 elections to the point where

[00:33:19] he should go to jail over it like I don't remember that's not really the part of it. I think it's

[00:33:24] mostly these falsifying business records which they had to scramble or stretch to try and get

[00:33:32] even this across the finish line but that's news to me that again I'm watching this for the first

[00:33:39] time because you know this is all happening so fast. I haven't seen this so I had to stop and

[00:33:44] be like that was what this was about you think this actually you think that this whole thing

[00:33:51] corrupted the 2016 election to the point where he snuck it in so now it's now it's it's because

[00:33:58] he paid Stormy Daniels hush money that's why he won in 2016 and he conspired with Russia and

[00:34:04] that's why he won the 2016 election. Like they the left doesn't want to admit that they just

[00:34:11] lost in 2016 to a novice politician who would never run for any political office ever in his life

[00:34:18] and ran for president and won on his first try. Is it possible that Donald Trump paid her

[00:34:28] hush money to keep her quiet and yes the timing was when he was running for president but it was

[00:34:35] more like now that he's running for president he didn't want his wife to know that he cheated

[00:34:42] like while she was like pregnant and having a baby. Possibly I think that was one thing was that

[00:34:47] they didn't want her to find out so he was covering it up so that Melania didn't find out

[00:34:53] because that would have probably looked bad if Melania left him in the middle of a presidential

[00:34:58] campaign. Sure. She's stuck by him through all this so clearly you know it's going to be much harder

[00:35:06] to try and get her to leave Donald Trump he's stuck she's stuck with him through all this so

[00:35:10] and it's funny how people make comments about that negative comments about her so you buy him

[00:35:15] and yet Hillary stayed by Bill so Hillary yeah I mean Hillary literally stayed with Bill Clinton

[00:35:21] who went on like the biggest national court of public opinion trial with Monica Lewinsky and Paul

[00:35:29] Jones and all that and she stood by her man and no one no one faults her for that.

[00:35:39] I heard this on a podcast somewhere and someone made a good point that like

[00:35:43] this whole like why did they wait this might be why all of this is backfiring on the left in Joe Biden

[00:35:52] you had four years from 2020 until now if Trump was guilty of all this stuff

[00:36:00] why wait until 2024 for all these cases to all of a sudden come about like late 2023

[00:36:07] early 2024 like why did all of a sudden these cases come out right now I mean

[00:36:15] you can put your tinfoil hat on you can say what you want but to the American voter it does look

[00:36:21] suspicious that they waited until 2024 to bring all of this stuff against Donald Trump like you

[00:36:30] couldn't bring it in 2021 you can bring in 2022 you waited until 2024 and I think that's one reason

[00:36:39] why a lot of this a lot of people are not buying this and I think if that interactive polls we saw

[00:36:45] on x was any indication then maybe this is actually helping Trump but I want to watch real quick

[00:36:53] a little bit of Jonathan Turley is a constitutional law professor

[00:36:59] he is no fan of Donald Trump he's come out and said that like he's not a Trump or he's not a MAGA guy

[00:37:06] he's kind of like it's kind of like an Alan Dershowitz without the whole being on the Epstein

[00:37:12] list kind of thing like he's not a fan of Trump but he's a constitutional law professor

[00:37:18] and he calls it like it is so uh he he was on Fox News and he said I believe Trump verdict will be

[00:37:25] reversed in state or federal systems so let's give a quick look I should probably start sharing it

[00:37:54] our moments I've had in a courtroom and I was just observing

[00:37:59] I the judge had just said that the jury could not reach a decision

[00:38:03] and that we would be dismissed for the day some reporters actually gathered their stuff and

[00:38:09] was starting to leave and then the judge came and basically said my mistake we just got a note

[00:38:16] saying there's a verdict throughout this time you could feel the building pressure in that courtroom

[00:38:23] the one person that didn't seem to register it was the former president he had been chatting with

[00:38:29] counsel he didn't show any emotion at all I as this mantra of guilty verdicts was read

[00:38:38] and there was a great you know I think that this is one of those things that is

[00:38:44] really embodies the entire Trump era there were people who clearly were thrilled by the result

[00:38:51] and there were people that will be very sad by it I was saddened to watch it I

[00:38:55] I disagree with this verdict I think as I've said before that this case

[00:39:01] was legally unfounded when they were reading those guilty verdicts

[00:39:12] and this is going to go up on appeal I think it's going to be reversed in the state or federal

[00:39:17] systems but it's moments like this when you're on the other side when you disagree with a verdict

[00:39:24] that you have to take a leap of faith in the rule of law it's what defines us many people feel

[00:39:30] that this case really embodied the antithesis of that but as a country as a whole we have a system

[00:39:36] in place to review this for Donald Trump that's not going to happen before the election and all

[00:39:42] likely that I but let's keep in mind that this is not the only court it's just the first one

[00:39:49] well and there have also been jury trials and and judges and decisions that have been made that

[00:39:55] have already been tough for the former president in other contexts too in the business context in

[00:39:59] another personal case involving E. Jean Carroll I mean there are other decisions that have been

[00:40:03] made against him that have been very difficult they've been in New York what do you think that

[00:40:08] portends or does not with these other cases we have pending Georgia it doesn't look like it's

[00:40:12] going to get to trial before we get to November you've got the two federal cases we're waiting for

[00:40:18] the Supreme Court decision on immunity which could come as early as next Thursday we get opinions

[00:40:23] then again what will that case mean to all of these things that are pending or have already

[00:40:28] been decided when it comes to this question um we you know we heard the arguments there at

[00:40:32] the Supreme Court there were two extremes anything and everything the president does

[00:40:36] you can't question any of it there must be full immunity from any kind of criminal activity

[00:40:40] too there's nothing there's no protection from him we know the justices are going to land we

[00:40:44] think somewhere in between not go with those extremes but how critical now is that decision as we

[00:40:49] wait for that well it's very critical both the terms of law and the timing I the court did seem

[00:40:55] to reject the extremes on both sides they didn't like the extremes of the Trump

[00:41:01] team in terms of the sweeping immunity but they also didn't like the court of appeals

[00:41:05] approach they felt that it gave too little recognition of the the needs of the office so

[00:41:10] they could end up sending this back for further evidence and for determinations by the trial

[00:41:16] court it seems unlikely okay so that wasn't uh he was going to start talking about more

[00:41:22] than what's going on in the other cases uh let's see so I wanted to get his take on it like I

[00:41:29] said Jonathan Turley is a constitutional law professor at George Washington University

[00:41:35] again he's not a trumpeter by any stretch of the imagination he is not a maga guy he's not a

[00:41:42] rah-rah maga guy so he's usually pretty spot on I think he kind of rose prominent

[00:41:48] story in the impeachment trials but anyway he makes a good point that this is the first court

[00:41:54] it's going to go up on appellate court if the appellate court doesn't agree you can always

[00:41:58] appeal it to the supreme court of New York um and then if that doesn't work you can go to the

[00:42:04] United States Supreme Court uh so there are avenues for him to appeal to get this turned over

[00:42:12] uh here's a question that might be for some people to to ponder do you think they care

[00:42:20] whether or not it gets overturned on appeal like what do you think do I think people care

[00:42:26] or do I care what's the question do the people who so like Alvin Bragg he got his win he got the

[00:42:34] conviction he got the 34 counts at this point politically do you think they care if it gets

[00:42:40] overturned on appeal or do you think that to them the damage is done like they've done what they

[00:42:46] were supposed to do like do you think they care if it gets overturned on appeal I think I think

[00:42:50] for the probably not probably like you said they they did what they wanted the damage is done

[00:42:58] like we joked about if it gets overturned they're just going to be like for only Lee can formally

[00:43:04] convicted felon the Donald Trump like you know that's always gonna follow him now and there's

[00:43:11] even because I still hear people argue well he was accused or convicted or whatever of this

[00:43:18] and it's like well no there was you know allegations but he formally hadn't been convicted

[00:43:24] of something and yet people believed that and still went with that and and I think

[00:43:31] I think they just chose to believe that and or not that they just chose to believe it but

[00:43:35] they heard it it was all they needed to know and that's like forever is just gonna that's

[00:43:40] their forever opinion of him right yeah I think it's one of those it got out there it created

[00:43:48] the narrative people will go with this now for the up until the election oh he was convicted

[00:43:53] you found guilty in criminal court in Manhattan if it gets overturned on appeal I don't think they'll

[00:43:57] care necessarily they'll say a jury of his peers found him guilty I don't know if Manhattan jurors

[00:44:04] are a jury of his peers every so often you know we'll hear somebody come forward and say I was

[00:44:09] anti-trump and now I've realized and I've changed my mind and like there's always going to be those

[00:44:15] few but I don't think it's going to be a majority the majority people know you know who Donald Trump is

[00:44:22] even teenagers you know young kids they know the Donald Trump name and everyone has kind of formed

[00:44:27] an opinion of him and very few I think will change their minds right um what do you think

[00:44:36] I think I don't think they care if it gets overturned on appeal I think they got there

[00:44:42] they got their political ammunition for this fall Biden is suffering really badly in every area of

[00:44:52] like what Americans care about like Trump's wiping the floor with him on like the top five issues when

[00:44:57] it comes to like the economy immigration crime like Trump's just wiping the floor with him on

[00:45:03] like pole after pole after pole he's beating them in all swing states and that's not accounting

[00:45:10] and that's not accounting for like the secret Trump vote that people who don't

[00:45:14] say they're going to vote for Trump but probably will go out and pull the lever for Trump

[00:45:18] so there's a good zero hedge articles reading the other day that internally in the White House

[00:45:24] people are freaking out and losing their mind because they're basically of the mindset like

[00:45:28] we're not going to win this thing like we can't win with Biden he's down in all the polls

[00:45:34] there's nothing he can do like the economy is taking a bad turn um so even internally in the

[00:45:40] White House people are freaking out so this is the Hail Mary that the Biden administration and

[00:45:47] the Democrats have to go with to to try and have some sort of argument to say well you kind of

[00:45:55] like this guy because he was a convicted felon now it sounds horrible but when you get down

[00:46:02] to nitty gritty it's like okay what was he convicted of well he put the wrong tax code he put the wrong

[00:46:10] thing down on his business records or his employees put down the wrong thing it doesn't sound as bad as

[00:46:17] is he a convicted felon because he's a rape based or he's a murder or you know stuff like that

[00:46:26] so I think this is their one Hail Mary they're going to run with it and yell

[00:46:30] and scream at the top of their lungs about Donald Trump being a convicted felon

[00:46:34] and the one common string you see in all these cases is the novel legal arguments they have

[00:46:45] that they've brought to try and get Trump so for example he brought up the gene carol

[00:46:52] case which I had forgotten about I forgot all about the gene carol case

[00:46:56] the defamation case that like he defamed her by saying it never happened but they couldn't prove

[00:47:06] it did happen so somehow he was guilty of defamation because he said it didn't happen

[00:47:13] like that was one of those ones were like wait that doesn't make any sense and then the other

[00:47:16] one was with the loans and the banks they were like well he overvalued his estates or his

[00:47:23] real estate so the banks would give him loans and the banks all came in and testified they're like

[00:47:28] we love Donald Trump he was a great client he was like the he was the golden calf we

[00:47:33] the goose that laid the golden eggs like everyone was excited about having Donald Trump and as a client

[00:47:39] made them a ton of money like everyone walked away happy there was no damages

[00:47:43] but for some reason because no one was harmed they stretched the law and changed the law to show

[00:47:50] that that was a crime even though literally everybody probably does it like

[00:47:58] that one that one boggled my mind because there was nobody who was damaged there was nobody who

[00:48:03] was harmed in that case the banks were happy that they made a ton of money and at the end of

[00:48:10] day like there was really no crime or any well wasn't a crime it was civilly liable

[00:48:15] um that one that one baffled my mind so and the other thing is like you have people who do this

[00:48:26] so if you go to a bank and you get you need to appraise your loan or praise your properties

[00:48:31] you don't think the bank's going to get their own appraiser to come in and appraise those properties

[00:48:35] themselves you think they're blindly just going to accept your appraisal

[00:48:39] well it's usually you hire you usually hire at least here in California you would hire a company

[00:48:45] so my last my last job I was a commercial role estate appraiser banks hire us and there you go

[00:48:52] but oftentimes and it's not like we were fudging numbers but oftentimes it was like

[00:48:59] what number do you need and it wasn't like oh we're waking up numbers but it would be like

[00:49:05] oftentimes it'd be like we cannot hit that number that's just that's not going to be possible we are

[00:49:09] not going to praise it at that and like and so they would just pull it based on that loan like

[00:49:14] it's like they're not trying to make it up it was just like okay that number's not going to happen

[00:49:18] it's not going to work right yeah I have a little bit of experience at this oh so you I didn't even

[00:49:24] know you had experience and we touched upon it um yeah that's the common string for me is you

[00:49:30] look at all these cases and you're like man they really had to stretch to to get any of these things

[00:49:36] into court and into trial like they are some legal they're there's some novel legal arguments but that's

[00:49:42] what appellate courts are for because you can bring up to your appellate court and they can

[00:49:46] kind of review it and be like this was an abusive process abuse of discretion all these things

[00:49:53] but this is the big one I think this is the big one that people were waiting for

[00:49:57] um at the end of the day to kind of summarize while we finish up here do I think this hurts

[00:50:06] Donald Trump no I don't think it hurts Donald Trump do I think it helps him I think marginally I

[00:50:13] think we looked at that poll from interactive polls that how reliable they are we'll see polls

[00:50:18] probably over the next coming days I don't think it hurts Trump as much as the left thinks

[00:50:22] it's gonna hurt him so I think if any win was pretty I mean that was what within 45 minutes an hour

[00:50:33] they could even take that many donating like that's how many people were donating to win red

[00:50:40] yeah I don't I don't think it hurts Donald Trump I think of anything it plays into what he's saying

[00:50:47] that if they're after me and they're trying to put me away what do you think they're gonna try to do to you

[00:50:54] and it works with this campaign message so I don't know any final thoughts I mean it's literally

[00:51:02] three or four hours old this news at this point um no I'm sure I'm gonna have more questions this

[00:51:09] week and I'm going to like annoy you as my attorney friend to be like what does this mean

[00:51:15] the second no yeah I that's all I have to say really about it I mean we kind of gave you the

[00:51:20] lay of the land we gave you our opinion people are still reacting I'm sure there's articles

[00:51:25] feverishly being written right now about what's going to happen to Donald Trump but like I said

[00:51:30] my opinion as of this moment I don't think it hurts him I think in the end it probably ends

[00:51:34] up helping him so we'll see where it goes from there but probably biggest news biggest

[00:51:41] political story I don't know probably in a long time is this has been one of the biggest

[00:51:47] political stories in our history never happened before so we had to do a whole episode on it because

[00:51:52] it's just such monumental breaking news and then we'll die and then we just relied let's talk

[00:51:58] about California yeah exactly there's no way we could talk about California and what we were

[00:52:04] originally going to talk about tonight so thank you to everyone for coming on oh sorry did you have

[00:52:11] any final thoughts before we logged off you asked me and I told you I'm sorry okay I'm gonna make

[00:52:17] sure I don't want to cut you off and be like if you had any final thoughts and then we ended the

[00:52:21] episode I'll get you off and you know I would you would just stop and be like stops outside

[00:52:26] before you go in your your ending spiel all right so everyone thank you for tuning in we got

[00:52:32] the YouTube working again this time thank you for everyone tuning in live if you're ever tuning in

[00:52:39] live and you want to ask us a question while we're doing this show please do so like add your commentary

[00:52:47] which are I'm kidding it'll be a point one every question I'll charge you also in the

[00:52:54] the invoice but yeah if we were watching live as I see people on YouTube and rumble are right

[00:53:00] now ask questions chime in let us know what's going on what are you thinking that's why we do this live

[00:53:06] so that people can interact with the show and ask us what's going on or give us their opinion

[00:53:10] and stuff like that so well now I have a final thought people are watching and they could be

[00:53:15] watching like anything right now I mean any like action not that we're not actual news but

[00:53:20] you know actual news they could be watching mainstream media they could be like for fox

[00:53:25] tuning in and like seeing the story and yet they came to watch us and our you know amazing

[00:53:30] banter that we have and so thank you everyone who's watching yeah thank you that's a very good point

[00:53:37] yeah I mean you could be watching Fox or what is it Newsmax or what are some other shows I don't

[00:53:44] know I don't watch a lot of the news anymore anyway I just read a lot of it but um yeah you

[00:53:49] you guys tuned in to watch us talk about the Trump conviction so unless there's anybody on the chat

[00:53:56] right now who has one last question I'll give you 10 seconds we'll count down if you have any questions

[00:54:02] before we sign off there's a moment of silence you got five seconds any last questions or comments

[00:54:08] before we sign off I see you out there I see you people watching so no okay all right with that

[00:54:20] oh you were actually counting I was just giving a vague 10 seconds all right so with that thank you

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