Ep. 252 - Tackling Rising Crime Rates in California

[00:00:00] If you're a California conservative, a libertarian, a moderate Democrat, believe in common sense,

[00:00:11] or just the sane person, this is the political podcast for you.

[00:00:15] It's the California Underground Podcast.

[00:00:27] Thanks for tuning into another episode of California Underground Podcast.

[00:00:31] My name is Philly, your host and as always with me is my trusty co is the best and fastest

[00:00:35] researcher in the West.

[00:00:36] And tonight we have a special guest from the American Bale Coalition, Jeffrey Clayton,

[00:00:41] the executive director.

[00:00:42] Jeff, welcome to the show.

[00:00:44] How are you?

[00:00:45] I'm well.

[00:00:46] Thanks for having me on.

[00:00:47] Appreciate it.

[00:00:48] So, I mean, we can just jump right into it.

[00:00:52] Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what the American Bale Coalition

[00:00:55] does?

[00:00:56] Absolutely.

[00:00:57] I've been an attorney for 20 years, traveled to 35 state capitals over the years, advocating

[00:01:03] on behalf of Bale and Pre-Trail Justice issues.

[00:01:06] Our trade association is our underwriters criminal bail bondsmen throughout the United

[00:01:11] States as I work on issues of bail reform from New York to California, and everywhere

[00:01:16] in between.

[00:01:19] So in your experience, we're sort of the point of tonight's show is we're going

[00:01:24] to be talking about rising crime rates in blue states.

[00:01:28] Specifically, we're also going to talk about here in California.

[00:01:33] Give us a little background as to how you got into this area specifically, this bail

[00:01:39] issue and how that kind of relates with what we're talking about.

[00:01:42] Sure.

[00:01:43] Actually, I was a private lobbyist years ago and one of my clients were bail bondsmen.

[00:01:49] But I also previously represented the Colorado State Courts and probation department.

[00:01:53] So I had the background in criminal justice issues.

[00:01:56] And so to take on this question of should we eliminate money bail or not has been something

[00:02:01] that had been worked on for the last decade now.

[00:02:04] So I have a conversation about whether we should have bail, what should bail be?

[00:02:07] Should people get out for free?

[00:02:08] Should people be supervised?

[00:02:10] All those sort of issues are things that we've worked on for the last 10 years.

[00:02:14] And I mean, there's been sort of a trend recently about getting rid of bail,

[00:02:20] reform, it always seems to come up about this idea of, oh, we should just get rid of

[00:02:24] bail. It's not fair or it's prejudicial.

[00:02:28] Why don't we start there with your idea or where you're coming from on bail?

[00:02:33] And we can kind of talk about that and dive into it more.

[00:02:37] Well, I think there has been some criticism of bail.

[00:02:40] So I think I'll start there.

[00:02:41] I think people understand the fundamentals that bail is security for your release

[00:02:45] that you are promising that you're going to return to court

[00:02:47] and somebody's putting in what most people would say is some skin in the game.

[00:02:50] They're putting in something that you stand to lose if you don't show up to court.

[00:02:55] I think the criticism has been that that hits poorer and minority communities

[00:03:00] harder and I think it can.

[00:03:02] And I think that's something that we've seen in California and elsewhere

[00:03:04] is that the bail system can be arbitrary.

[00:03:07] If it's not taken seriously, it can be automatic in many cases

[00:03:10] where we just don't care if you can't afford it.

[00:03:13] And we've seen that throughout the country as well.

[00:03:15] But primarily what it's meant to do is guarantee your appearance in court

[00:03:18] not to punish you, you know, pending the resolution of these trials

[00:03:21] because we're supposed to protect the presumption of innocence here.

[00:03:24] And the Supreme Court says the whole goal is to keep you hold you over for safe keeping

[00:03:29] until we can get to the trial and find out what we're going to do

[00:03:32] in your particular criminal case.

[00:03:35] Yeah, I think a lot of people have this idea of bail

[00:03:38] because they watch like law and order or something.

[00:03:40] Are they here like bail or are there a flight risk or something like that?

[00:03:45] And you always hear the issue of like, oh, they're bail set at five million

[00:03:48] dollars or something like that.

[00:03:49] So I think it's a good way to kind of just break it down

[00:03:54] as to what the purpose of it is.

[00:03:56] It's like you said, it's not to penalize people.

[00:03:58] It's to make sure that they show up and what happens if somebody

[00:04:03] doesn't show up when I don't really know what the process is after

[00:04:07] if they don't show up?

[00:04:09] Absolutely.

[00:04:10] I mean, various states have different rules on how long,

[00:04:12] but generally a forfeiture notice is sent, meaning you're going to lose this bond

[00:04:17] if you don't deliver the defendant into court within a certain time period.

[00:04:21] And bail agents, private bail agents actually have arrest towers.

[00:04:25] They're taking custody of the defendant according to the US Supreme Court.

[00:04:28] And so that's regulated by various states.

[00:04:31] You know, crossing state lines can be regulated by the federal government.

[00:04:34] But the bail agent and the third party who cosigns the bond,

[00:04:38] mom or dad or family member or friend who also cosigned

[00:04:41] are on the hook for that.

[00:04:42] And they then have a process to return the defendant.

[00:04:45] If they don't, they have to pay.

[00:04:47] And so when you're paying a bail bondsman, you're paying, you know,

[00:04:49] a fee, a percentage to post the entire and that or you can post the entire amount yourself

[00:04:55] and or your third party can post the entire amount in cash

[00:04:57] and certainly risk that in a lot of states allow you to post your property as well.

[00:05:01] So you could have a deed to a house or something like that to secure a bail bond.

[00:05:06] So is that sort of like what was that show is popular back in today?

[00:05:09] Dog, the bounty hunter.

[00:05:10] Like, didn't he go after people who skip bail or what was that about?

[00:05:16] He does. I know him personally.

[00:05:17] I've known him for a few years.

[00:05:19] OK, I do. I do know Dwayne quite well

[00:05:23] and delayed his unfortunate passing this way.

[00:05:25] Beth, who's also on the show, a new bear quite well, too,

[00:05:28] when she was president of the National Bail Agents Association.

[00:05:32] But that is what it is about, is that there is a remedy.

[00:05:36] Some states will limit, you know, how vast these powers are,

[00:05:40] like when you can you can't kick doors down or you can't, you know, this sort of thing.

[00:05:44] But in general, you know, the power of custody is the power to go arrest

[00:05:49] and in many cases over from by force, you know, resisting arrest

[00:05:53] if they don't want to be returned to court.

[00:05:55] Now, practically what it means is the dog shows really not the real scenario.

[00:05:59] The real scenario is working with law enforcement.

[00:06:02] A lot of these people are extremely dangerous armed.

[00:06:05] So it's more tracking, I would say, and aggressively trying to arrest.

[00:06:09] It's we have the guy he's one on 12.

[00:06:11] Well, any warrants, right?

[00:06:12] He's armed and then we have the police come in and him situation

[00:06:15] in a lot of these high risk cases.

[00:06:18] So now that we have sort of a background,

[00:06:21] we all know we have a better idea of what bail is.

[00:06:25] Let's start diving into rising crime rates in blue states like New York,

[00:06:30] California, if there's any other, please jump in and fill me in

[00:06:34] that you've seen as well.

[00:06:36] Are they intertwined?

[00:06:38] Is there an issue with bail?

[00:06:40] And is that what you're seeing?

[00:06:42] Sort of this rising crime rates in states that try to do away with bail

[00:06:46] or what are you seeing?

[00:06:49] Well, you know, we seem to think there's we think there's an impact of that,

[00:06:52] but it's very difficult to prove.

[00:06:53] And I think there's other factors that work with the entirety of the crime

[00:06:57] wave. I don't think you could just say bail is the cause or X is the cause.

[00:07:01] I think there's a lot of things going on like the retail theft.

[00:07:03] I think you can't just say that's a bail problem.

[00:07:05] I think that exploits how there's a bail as part of the weakness

[00:07:08] that's leading to the continuation of like things like retail theft.

[00:07:11] But I wouldn't say that bail is the problem in places like New York.

[00:07:14] I think bail was the problem.

[00:07:16] I think we saw that.

[00:07:17] I think that people figured out when it's when bail is zero,

[00:07:21] we were sort of predicting the ultimate consequence of a criminal case

[00:07:24] that we don't care.

[00:07:25] And I think that's the message that suspects got in places like New York,

[00:07:29] in places like San Francisco that we just don't care.

[00:07:31] And the real answer is we don't want to tell people what their bail is.

[00:07:34] We want to tell them you're going to have to figure that out

[00:07:36] when you go to court and talk to the judge.

[00:07:38] And when we send the signal that they're just not going to be bail

[00:07:41] on these charges, in essence, what we're saying is we're not going

[00:07:43] to arrest you or we're not going to punish you.

[00:07:45] And that unfortunately is I think the message that bail reform

[00:07:48] has sent in places like New York and elsewhere.

[00:07:53] I literally did not understand this. So thank you.

[00:07:58] You see, even Camille's getting educated right now.

[00:08:01] While we're sitting here.

[00:08:03] Yeah, I think that there's this, like you said, that mechanism

[00:08:07] if you don't have skin in the game,

[00:08:10] there may not be as much of a penalty or may not be as an incentive to show up.

[00:08:15] We're obviously very familiar with what's going on with retail theft

[00:08:19] in California.

[00:08:21] It makes the news every single day.

[00:08:23] We've seen the videos of people smashing grabs.

[00:08:27] I mean, retail theft has for a lack of a better term,

[00:08:30] probably killed downtown San Francisco.

[00:08:34] Do you have any commentary?

[00:08:35] You said it's not all bail, but like what's some commentary that you have about

[00:08:39] why are we seeing such rising in retail theft in California?

[00:08:44] I do think they'll as part of that component of organized retail theft.

[00:08:47] And the real answer is these are large organized crime

[00:08:50] outfits that are stealing, you know, millions and millions of dollars

[00:08:53] in small pieces.

[00:08:54] And so the system's not set up to deal with that.

[00:08:57] And that's what you're seeing with this proposition.

[00:08:59] 47 part of the reform is to, you know, kind of three strikes on a retail

[00:09:03] type of type of the thing that's being talked about as part of that.

[00:09:07] So I think, you know, bail is a major part of that issue

[00:09:11] because of the felony threat that threshold that has gone down.

[00:09:15] That's been another part of proposition 47 is making it easier

[00:09:19] to steal more so you don't hit that felony until you go up to a thousand dollars.

[00:09:24] And so all of these components, I think, kind of led to this retail theft.

[00:09:28] And just as a phenomenon, I mean, I don't think we'd seen that before

[00:09:31] that gangs of folks were using this versus just individuals.

[00:09:35] So you really have a collective group of people doing this.

[00:09:38] And that's been the difference.

[00:09:39] And so just being able to exploit the little things, you go to a small town,

[00:09:42] they're not going to arrest the skycrap, they're not going to impose a bill,

[00:09:45] etc. And so the but the accumulation of that has been huge.

[00:09:48] And so if people get caught, if people get in stared in jail,

[00:09:52] even overnight, they'll know which jurisdiction is not to go to.

[00:09:55] And that's just a reality.

[00:09:56] And so bail does, even though it's not supposed to punish, it does deter crime

[00:10:00] in that sense. Did you guys see that story?

[00:10:03] I'm sorry, this is related.

[00:10:04] San Diego recently, the woman that was arrested for she had a ring of like

[00:10:12] I don't I forget how many people working for her who would go and do

[00:10:15] smaller theft of I think it was like skincare, makeup, women's clothing

[00:10:20] or whatever. And she was running a whole ring and she was just very recently

[00:10:23] like last month, I think arrested for that.

[00:10:27] She had made millions over a few years.

[00:10:29] And so I guess that's a perfect example of in California, they can go

[00:10:33] and still not have dollars worth of skincare and then, you know, sell that

[00:10:37] and she's got a whole ring doing that.

[00:10:39] That's it's a lot of money.

[00:10:41] Last time I was in California, I forgot my blue-cheat headphones, right?

[00:10:44] Nine ninety nine, I had to go get some had to get a key, had to get somebody.

[00:10:49] I need to do a special register.

[00:10:50] It took me half an hour to get these headphones on like that.

[00:10:52] That's why do I really even need them?

[00:10:54] One of our contractors went into target and his wife,

[00:10:57] no, really goes to target, hadn't been to target in a while

[00:10:59] and basically walked around and couldn't get anything and went up to the manager

[00:11:02] and said, how about I give you my credit card?

[00:11:04] You give me the key and then I can go shop and get what I want

[00:11:07] because it just takes so long because everything's behind glass.

[00:11:10] So people people are tired of it.

[00:11:11] I know that's true.

[00:11:12] But, you know, we're just not set up to fight retail criminals.

[00:11:15] We kind of just said we're not going to worry about that.

[00:11:17] Now we're going to have to work out unfortunately.

[00:11:21] I saw some guy on Twitter here in San Diego and he like selectively went

[00:11:26] to different targets and he was like, well, I'm at this target in this neighborhood

[00:11:31] and I don't see stuff behind glass.

[00:11:32] So I don't know what people are talking about.

[00:11:34] And then there were just reply after reply of like, yeah, go to go to this

[00:11:39] Mission Valley target, go to this target.

[00:11:41] And it was just stuff like there's one here.

[00:11:44] The one in Mission Valley, we went once.

[00:11:47] And I felt bad for the attendance who worked there because you're right.

[00:11:51] Every time somebody wants to get deodorant, you have to press a little button

[00:11:55] and an attendant has to come running and open it.

[00:11:58] And then you have to check it out, look at it and then you're like,

[00:12:00] oh, what if I don't want it?

[00:12:01] Now you're just wasting everyone's time.

[00:12:04] So it's like, stores are suffering.

[00:12:07] Yeah.

[00:12:07] And just the convenience factor alone.

[00:12:09] It's like, have we really sunk that low?

[00:12:11] But it turns out we asked.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:15] So a lot of this, I mean, there is this push right now.

[00:12:19] Before we hop down, we were talking about how there is this push to

[00:12:22] repeal or, I don't know if it's a repeal or reform prop 47.

[00:12:28] And a lot of people throw that around and what prop 47 did.

[00:12:33] Do you want to talk about what prop 47 is before we get into what it means

[00:12:38] to try and repeal it or reform it?

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:41] I mean, I think the main kind of messages really was a downgrade of various

[00:12:45] things that we took more seriously then that we take less seriously now.

[00:12:50] And I think the felony threshold was a component of that and some of the

[00:12:53] other changes and all the specifics are escaping me now because I'm now

[00:12:57] focusing more on what they're trying to do about it.

[00:13:00] But in essence, that was passed, I believe in Chuta.

[00:13:04] It's been six or seven years ago now.

[00:13:07] And of course we didn't.

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:10] So it's almost 10 years ago now.

[00:13:12] So I can't believe we've been working on this for so long.

[00:13:14] Obviously, we didn't play a part in that because, you know, whether

[00:13:16] something should be more of a crime or bail should go up or down as a

[00:13:20] result of how serious we take a crime.

[00:13:22] You know, we didn't get involved, but we certainly see the seeing the

[00:13:24] impact of that and that has largely been the elimination of misdemeanor

[00:13:28] bail in California.

[00:13:29] Right.

[00:13:30] If you commit a misdemeanor and you, you know, you're just not

[00:13:32] going to have to post bail and that sends the message that we don't

[00:13:35] care about these crimes.

[00:13:36] And I think we are, and I haven't seen the numbers, but I've got to

[00:13:39] think that people are thumbing their nose at this system much more in

[00:13:43] misdemeanor crimes.

[00:13:44] And you know, the ones that are under 99, they're just not really

[00:13:48] prosecuting very hard at all right now.

[00:13:51] And you know, you got a 30% dismissal rate on felonies in Los Angeles

[00:13:54] as is what do you think they're doing on misdemeanors?

[00:13:57] You know, it's the prosecution system is just not set up to handle

[00:14:02] this volume of low level crimes.

[00:14:04] Can I read real quickly what Prop 47 is just for people watching to

[00:14:09] really understand in case they don't?

[00:14:11] Absolutely.

[00:14:11] Okay, so in 2014, Prop 47 was a ballot measure passed by California

[00:14:17] voters on November 5th.

[00:14:19] The law made some nonviolent property crimes where the value does

[00:14:22] not exceed $950 into misdemeanors.

[00:14:24] It also made more simple drug possession offenses into misdemeanors.

[00:14:29] It also provides that past convictions for these charges may be

[00:14:32] reduced to a misdemeanor by a court under Prop 47.

[00:14:35] You may qualify for a reduction from a felony to a misdemeanor for

[00:14:38] some of the following offenses, certain forgeries, commercial

[00:14:42] burglary, petty theft with priors, bad check, grand theft crimes,

[00:14:46] possession of stolen property, possession of a controlled substance.

[00:14:52] Yep.

[00:14:54] I remember I was working as a law clerk.

[00:14:58] I think what year was it?

[00:14:59] I think it was 2015.

[00:15:02] I was working as a law clerk at the DA's office and there was a

[00:15:06] lot of grumbling about Prop 47 and how many of these these

[00:15:10] crimes are getting reclassified.

[00:15:12] And even back then they were like, this is going to be an

[00:15:15] absolute disaster.

[00:15:17] And that was barely a year into Prop 47 being on the books

[00:15:23] and a lot of these prosecutors said this is going to change so

[00:15:26] much.

[00:15:26] This is going to be a disaster.

[00:15:29] It just seems like they've completely cut like the legs out

[00:15:33] from lower level crime prosecution.

[00:15:37] Like there's just it's kind of a snowball effect of well, if we

[00:15:42] can't hold them on bail, if it's not worth prosecuting, then the

[00:15:45] cops aren't going to arrest them because why are they going to

[00:15:48] do the paperwork to arrest someone to bring them and the

[00:15:51] DA is going to go I'm not prosecuting him because it's

[00:15:54] not worth it under Prop 47.

[00:15:56] It just seems like it became like a whole snowball and took

[00:15:59] like the legs out of these lower level offenses, which still

[00:16:03] occur and they're still damaging, but it's just they're just

[00:16:06] not there anymore.

[00:16:09] Yeah, the unique thing about the low level offenses is we

[00:16:12] can't incarcerate ourselves on a problem.

[00:16:14] We can't throw everyone in jail who steals.

[00:16:16] So we have to deter them.

[00:16:17] We have to convince them that they're going to get caught

[00:16:19] and they're going to get punished.

[00:16:21] And that's what we're not doing.

[00:16:22] Right?

[00:16:22] And that's just fundamentals of deterrence.

[00:16:24] Right?

[00:16:24] Certainty of getting caught, swiftness of punishment.

[00:16:27] Right?

[00:16:28] And we have gotten completely away from that.

[00:16:31] And the other thing that means is, yeah, you don't have to

[00:16:33] lock up a low level thief for 10 years.

[00:16:37] Right?

[00:16:38] Just make sure you're hitting him every time and he's

[00:16:39] getting caught a lot and he's spending a week in jail or

[00:16:42] whatever we're getting them and sending the message.

[00:16:44] And unfortunately, you know, we've gotten completely

[00:16:46] away from that.

[00:16:47] And I was going to use the word snowball.

[00:16:49] You know, another city that's having similar problems

[00:16:51] as Houston, Texas.

[00:16:52] And you know, they had a at one point a 76%

[00:16:55] dismissal rate on filed misdemeanor cases.

[00:16:58] So, you know, there's no, you know, you would talk about

[00:17:01] certainty of getting caught.

[00:17:02] Okay.

[00:17:03] Those are the people that actually the police found

[00:17:06] arrested and, you know what I mean?

[00:17:08] So the certainty of getting caught factor is like, well,

[00:17:10] on an hundredth and that just sends the message.

[00:17:13] And that's exactly what we have going on right now.

[00:17:16] So unfortunately, it kind of reminds me of, I don't

[00:17:19] know if this like parallel or similar kind of reminds

[00:17:22] me I'm from the East Coast, grew up in Jersey and always

[00:17:27] hear the stories about how New York was on hard times

[00:17:31] in the 70s and part of the 80s as well.

[00:17:35] At the point where they even basically almost went

[00:17:37] bankrupt.

[00:17:38] And it wasn't until Rudy Giuliani and I can't remember

[00:17:43] the police chief's name who came in, but they

[00:17:47] imposed the broken window theory, which was

[00:17:52] if you send the signal that we're not going to put up

[00:17:55] with low level offenses, we're not going to put up

[00:17:58] with this, that it will deter more crime.

[00:18:02] I mean, the theory is basically if someone breaks

[00:18:05] a window in a neighborhood and you leave it broken,

[00:18:07] it sends a signal to everybody in the neighborhood.

[00:18:09] Nobody cares.

[00:18:10] No one's going to prosecute you.

[00:18:11] No one's going to arrest you.

[00:18:12] So I just remember that that was the whole theory

[00:18:15] back then was I think there was a good story about

[00:18:20] they would graffiti the subway cars and then

[00:18:24] they had lookout guys watching them graffiti

[00:18:28] and then they would come down paint over it again

[00:18:30] immediately after.

[00:18:32] So it would even deter them from putting graffiti

[00:18:35] on subway cars because they're like, I put it

[00:18:37] I spent all this time on putting subway

[00:18:39] graffiti on subway cars and they just came five

[00:18:41] minutes later and painted over.

[00:18:42] It's not worth it.

[00:18:44] So I mean, it worked in New York.

[00:18:47] It cleaned up New York.

[00:18:47] It completely transformed it from a slum to like

[00:18:51] a family destination.

[00:18:53] OK, but why couldn't police arresting the graffiti

[00:18:56] artists instead?

[00:18:58] They can afford to have someone watch them.

[00:19:02] I think that was part.

[00:19:02] But it was also that broken window theory of like

[00:19:05] we don't want things to look bad so that it just

[00:19:09] deters them like it's not worth it to graffiti.

[00:19:11] So I think in some cases they did arrest them.

[00:19:13] But OK, sorry.

[00:19:16] They certainly they know they certainly did arrest them.

[00:19:19] And I think, you know, but that is that does make

[00:19:21] the point of the broken window theory.

[00:19:22] But really what it was in New York and the fascinating

[00:19:25] part about New York as a case study is it was

[00:19:28] the least incarcerated city, major city

[00:19:30] in the United States at the same time

[00:19:32] at the lowest crime rate.

[00:19:33] And it tells you it can be done.

[00:19:35] We can hammer criminals without ballooning

[00:19:38] the corrections budget and we've managed to as

[00:19:42] a result of New York bail reform, unfortunately,

[00:19:44] reserve, you know, reverse 27 years of policies

[00:19:46] in three years.

[00:19:48] And so they're right back to this message.

[00:19:51] And it just goes to show you that if crime goes

[00:19:53] up or down, we just have to continue to send

[00:19:54] the same signal.

[00:19:55] Hey, we're not putting up with this.

[00:19:56] Hey, we're not putting up with this.

[00:19:57] Hey, we're not putting up with this.

[00:19:59] And, you know, we can do reforms

[00:20:00] and all that sort of thing.

[00:20:01] But unfortunately, words got down.

[00:20:04] And one of the best ones I ever was recently

[00:20:08] a panel before the New Mexico Supreme Court,

[00:20:11] a suspect showed up.

[00:20:12] They defended who had posted bail multiple times,

[00:20:14] showed up to testify and said,

[00:20:16] I don't know what you're doing,

[00:20:17] but I was in jail last week and the word has got it out

[00:20:20] that you're going to get away with it.

[00:20:22] And that's what everybody was talking about.

[00:20:23] I'm coming down here to tell you

[00:20:25] it's probably not good for New Mexico.

[00:20:27] So, you know, he was a carrying guy

[00:20:28] and showed up to tell them that word gets out.

[00:20:30] And that's what the criminal justice system,

[00:20:32] it's very much like the border.

[00:20:33] If it seems like it's going to be a good deal,

[00:20:35] people will go for it.

[00:20:36] Regardless of whether we've had

[00:20:38] a fundamental shift in border policy,

[00:20:39] halfway, I don't know.

[00:20:40] But we certainly send a signal that come on over

[00:20:43] and I think the criminal justice system

[00:20:44] is the same way in that respect

[00:20:46] is whatever signal we send

[00:20:47] is what people, how people behave.

[00:20:50] Yeah. And I think it just,

[00:20:52] it creates a culture and then it gets,

[00:20:56] it's almost like, I mean,

[00:20:59] I imagine it's probably like having kids,

[00:21:01] I don't know, Camille if you want to chime in here.

[00:21:05] It's like, it's like,

[00:21:07] if a kid pushes the limits of like,

[00:21:10] well, I can get away with X,

[00:21:12] then the next time it's like, okay,

[00:21:14] now I know I can get away with X.

[00:21:16] Let me see if I can push it a little bit more

[00:21:17] and get away with Y.

[00:21:19] And it just becomes like,

[00:21:20] how far can you push that line?

[00:21:22] And like you're saying,

[00:21:25] the signal is, okay, we can push the line this far

[00:21:28] and we won't get caught or we won't get prosecuted

[00:21:30] and we're fine.

[00:21:31] And then that just creates a culture and an enterprise

[00:21:35] of, well, we can all do this

[00:21:36] and we can pool our resources

[00:21:38] and like the retail theft we're seeing here in California,

[00:21:42] we can make a nice enterprise,

[00:21:44] but most of us are not gonna get caught or prosecuted.

[00:21:47] Right?

[00:21:48] Exactly.

[00:21:49] Can confirm my question.

[00:21:49] It's not the crime unless you get caught.

[00:21:51] And Camille says, you can confirm.

[00:21:53] That is what happens with kids.

[00:21:54] Can confirm that it's like converting.

[00:21:56] Yeah, it's not the crime unless you get caught.

[00:21:58] I'm very like zero tolerance of all the things.

[00:22:02] And people will tell me I'm too strict,

[00:22:03] but I have really good kids.

[00:22:04] And I used to have a rule like they're older now,

[00:22:06] but if they would sit down and argue over Troy

[00:22:09] and be like, you argue, nobody gets it.

[00:22:11] Cause I don't want to listen to this.

[00:22:13] So it was like, you're gonna figure this out

[00:22:15] or nobody gets this.

[00:22:17] And now people tell me all the time,

[00:22:20] not to like to my own horn,

[00:22:21] but people tell me all the time,

[00:22:23] they are amazed to help all my kids get along.

[00:22:25] Like absolutely just like,

[00:22:28] who gets along that well?

[00:22:29] Cause like all, I mean,

[00:22:30] I don't want to like throw down my sisters,

[00:22:32] but all their kids argue with each other.

[00:22:34] And they'll all be like,

[00:22:35] how do your kids not argue with each other?

[00:22:36] And I'm like, I don't know.

[00:22:37] I didn't let them, never.

[00:22:40] Yeah, you made them figure it out.

[00:22:41] You said, hey,

[00:22:42] you got to work it out amongst yourselves.

[00:22:43] Otherwise it's not gonna go well for you.

[00:22:46] So Camille is a perfect example of

[00:22:48] you send this right signal.

[00:22:50] Parenting is the most kidding.

[00:22:53] If you send the signal,

[00:22:54] it's gonna work and get perfect kids.

[00:22:57] That's what we'll take away from this episode.

[00:23:00] So now we have all these problems.

[00:23:02] We have abandoned basically lower level offenses

[00:23:08] in a lot of blue cities because it is,

[00:23:12] the argument, whatever they want to try and make.

[00:23:16] Are you seeing more of a switch

[00:23:18] in a lot of these blue states

[00:23:20] in terms of sentiment on crime?

[00:23:22] Do you think there's people

[00:23:23] like the voters are starting to go?

[00:23:25] I'm starting to see the reality

[00:23:28] of these pie in the sky ideas.

[00:23:30] Are you starting to see sentiment change

[00:23:32] in these legislatures that you're kind of going to

[00:23:34] and lobbying and working with?

[00:23:37] It's overwhelming.

[00:23:38] I mean, in California last time

[00:23:39] I was there, one legislator said,

[00:23:41] I used to get like, one or two crime calls.

[00:23:45] And he basically said he got one or two other calls.

[00:23:47] So the previous week in all the other calls

[00:23:49] were about homelessness and crime.

[00:23:50] Like every single constituent is calling.

[00:23:53] You can feel it in the state capitals.

[00:23:55] You could feel it amongst the legislators.

[00:23:57] It's weighing on them.

[00:23:59] And a lot of them are like, do you have any answers?

[00:24:01] Like what do you think in bail can we do to,

[00:24:04] or tighten things we can tighten down in the bail system?

[00:24:06] In some cases, yes.

[00:24:07] And in a lot of cases, no.

[00:24:10] It's other issues like Prop 47 or things like that.

[00:24:12] You just have to force the law

[00:24:13] or get prosecutors like in Los Angeles

[00:24:15] that want to prosecute, to prosecute.

[00:24:18] So it's basic things like that.

[00:24:21] But yes, we're seeing that from coast to coast.

[00:24:23] My home state of Colorado, the pressure is on.

[00:24:26] Obviously if you saw what happened in Sacramento

[00:24:27] a couple of weeks ago with the retail crime theft package,

[00:24:30] I mean split the Democratic caucus,

[00:24:32] but they're moving on it.

[00:24:33] And I think there's desire to move on it.

[00:24:36] The Proposition 47 debate,

[00:24:37] you got the prosecutors and all the rest of the groups

[00:24:40] pulling signatures,

[00:24:41] which have also got the legislature seriously thinking

[00:24:43] about maybe they want to get way in on that.

[00:24:45] And maybe they want to start tinkering around

[00:24:48] Proposition 47, which I never thought I would hear.

[00:24:51] I thought that was just a permanent thing.

[00:24:53] We were downgrading that one.

[00:24:54] We would move on for that.

[00:24:55] I didn't think we were going to be rebusping that

[00:24:57] and maybe not this soon.

[00:24:58] So it's been a dramatic shift, definitely.

[00:25:01] And to talk about some of the other states,

[00:25:04] I mean the conservative states are going just as nuts,

[00:25:07] but maybe even further nuts,

[00:25:08] like when the lock everybody up mentality to an extreme

[00:25:11] that with that actually had to kind of tamp down

[00:25:13] and say, you know,

[00:25:14] you're going to go a little bit too far there.

[00:25:16] The places like South Carolina and Tennessee, et cetera.

[00:25:19] Trying to say, we would just want to deny bail

[00:25:20] for all these people.

[00:25:21] We want to lock everybody up.

[00:25:22] And sometimes, you know,

[00:25:23] you go a little bit too far in times like these

[00:25:25] when the crime waves are happening.

[00:25:28] Yeah, I'm interested because I,

[00:25:31] one, I always say there's a golden rule about politics.

[00:25:35] Is that politicians never like to admit

[00:25:37] that they're wrong about anything.

[00:25:39] And I think Prop 47 is a great example

[00:25:43] of what we're seeing where Democrats in California are like,

[00:25:47] well, we're not going to admit

[00:25:49] Prop 47 was wrong when we did it.

[00:25:51] So we'll introduce this new package, Randy Reverse.

[00:25:55] And it just, I think it tweaks it.

[00:25:58] It kind of tweaks it on the margins.

[00:26:01] It doesn't really go at the heart of it.

[00:26:04] But politicians don't like the idea of like,

[00:26:06] oh, we have to go back and say,

[00:26:07] we were wrong 10 years later.

[00:26:09] So they try and kind of nibble around the corners

[00:26:12] and see if that works.

[00:26:15] Do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:26:16] Is it a nibbling or should we just go direct at it?

[00:26:20] Well, you're right.

[00:26:21] They don't want to,

[00:26:22] nobody wants to admit that they got things wrong.

[00:26:24] And we used to have a saying

[00:26:25] that no government program fails.

[00:26:27] And if it does,

[00:26:28] it's because you didn't give us enough resources.

[00:26:30] You know, but that's really what's going on here

[00:26:33] is that we think this did fail.

[00:26:35] I do think they should fundamentally revisit it.

[00:26:37] And really it just comes down to discretion.

[00:26:39] I mean, you know, it's,

[00:26:41] if people just keep doing it over and over again,

[00:26:44] that's more important than what they do.

[00:26:46] I mean, here we go back to having your kid.

[00:26:48] I mean, again, maybe that,

[00:26:50] you know, they've done it a hundred,

[00:26:52] an annoying thing a hundred times.

[00:26:53] And the big thing of it's kind of big,

[00:26:55] but not really that big.

[00:26:57] They only done it once.

[00:26:57] And you know, but whatever it's,

[00:26:59] they keep doing this pattern

[00:27:00] and you got to get them out of it.

[00:27:01] Example, urban crime, urban violent crime,

[00:27:05] 60 to 80% of urban violent crime

[00:27:07] is caused by five to three to 5% of defendants.

[00:27:11] So this is a small class of people that do it over

[00:27:14] and over and over and over.

[00:27:15] Felon, you're convicted felon,

[00:27:16] kind of have a gun, they have a gun.

[00:27:18] You can't do that, they keep doing it

[00:27:20] and they just keep doing it.

[00:27:21] And that is, so that is something

[00:27:23] that we've got to get our arms around.

[00:27:25] That's kind of what's going on

[00:27:26] in these urban centers right now.

[00:27:29] Do you see, I think I was looking at your site

[00:27:32] discussing the issues of like recidivism in America.

[00:27:37] Do you have any comment on recidivism

[00:27:39] and sort of where we're at with that

[00:27:41] and seeing people, like you just said,

[00:27:43] people kind of keep doing it.

[00:27:44] They keep getting caught again and again

[00:27:46] or they come out and they get caught again

[00:27:48] and they do it again.

[00:27:49] Do you have any thought on that?

[00:27:51] It's gotten worse because we're labeling people poor

[00:27:54] that are recidivists and recidivists are poor.

[00:27:56] Let's not get that wrong.

[00:27:57] A lot of recidivists are not,

[00:27:59] you know, rolling around with a bankroll,

[00:28:02] but unfortunately we're designing policies

[00:28:04] to help the poor that are helping recidivists.

[00:28:06] New York is the perfect example of that.

[00:28:08] We're in California, these zero bail policies

[00:28:11] are the perfect example of that.

[00:28:12] Because we say if you're in this bucket of crimes,

[00:28:15] then you're low risk and it doesn't matter, right?

[00:28:17] And then a recidivist goes, aha, here's the loophole.

[00:28:21] I won't show up for court and I'll move on, right?

[00:28:23] So they continue on whereas we really did

[00:28:26] want to help the poor guy.

[00:28:27] We really did want to help the poor guy

[00:28:29] that should have gotten out,

[00:28:30] that wasn't going to get out or process was messed up

[00:28:32] and all that sort of thing.

[00:28:33] So we designed a policy

[00:28:35] but we made it too broad and we allowed recidivist

[00:28:37] to torpedo it.

[00:28:39] And that is over and over what has been going on

[00:28:42] is that we were over sympathetic and we undersorted.

[00:28:46] We didn't have a good net

[00:28:48] on who we were giving the advantages to

[00:28:50] and it turns out it was recidivist.

[00:28:51] And Houston, Texas again was a perfect example of that.

[00:28:54] You had 37 defendants that were out

[00:28:59] on eight or more violent felony charges each

[00:29:02] at one time.

[00:29:03] And how is that even possible that a judge,

[00:29:07] and a lot of those were PR bonds.

[00:29:09] So you had to, a lot of these were not posting any bail

[00:29:12] on the first six charges, got out for free

[00:29:15] and then had, so the idea they had 37 people

[00:29:18] out on eight or more felony charges

[00:29:19] was something that never happened in Houston

[00:29:21] until bail reform.

[00:29:23] And was something the then democratically elected

[00:29:25] district attorney went to the state Capitol

[00:29:28] and worked with Republicans on to reverse

[00:29:29] and they did reverse it.

[00:29:31] In fact, she got primary and she just lost.

[00:29:33] To the progressive because she stood up to crime.

[00:29:36] And we had to say, you know, even though we didn't agree

[00:29:38] with her, she was kind of blip blopper.

[00:29:41] At the end of the day, she stood up for what's right

[00:29:42] and she lost her seat because of it.

[00:29:44] Unfortunately that, that's politics for you.

[00:29:47] Was there a positive trend after she worked

[00:29:50] with Republican legislators to correct it

[00:29:54] or how did that work out?

[00:29:56] Yes, because the judges weren't legally allowed

[00:29:58] to continue to let these people out

[00:30:00] for multiple felonies.

[00:30:03] They couldn't do what's called a PR

[00:30:06] or a personal bond in Texas on a certain number of charges.

[00:30:10] And so what happened is the number of people

[00:30:12] that were out on multiple bonds

[00:30:13] of those multiple time felons

[00:30:14] in the group that we wanted to hit shrank

[00:30:16] and statistics ended up proving that she ended up

[00:30:18] coming back to the Capitol the next year

[00:30:20] and presenting, I don't remember the numbers specifically

[00:30:23] but these reforms have actually worked

[00:30:25] to decrease the pretrial crime and recidivism

[00:30:29] numbers of this particular subset of people.

[00:30:32] And so it was a good case study on, look, yeah, okay.

[00:30:35] 37 defendants, eight crimes each.

[00:30:38] That's a lot of serious violent crimes right there

[00:30:41] that are coming from 37 defendants.

[00:30:42] That'll keep coming if we let them back out

[00:30:44] to do what they do.

[00:30:47] Because those are the ones that got caught on

[00:30:48] that's the other point.

[00:30:50] There were a lot more that they didn't probably with.

[00:30:52] That's surprising to hear that happened

[00:30:54] something like that even happened in Texas

[00:30:56] of all places.

[00:30:57] You'd figure like someplace in Texas

[00:30:59] they wouldn't allow a lot of this to happen

[00:31:01] but I guess even in Texas this stuff is happening, right?

[00:31:06] It's just Houston because it's a major city

[00:31:08] and the sort of the, you know

[00:31:10] the demographics sort of changed in the last decade.

[00:31:13] For example, there were 16 county court at law judges

[00:31:17] Texas has elected judges and they were all Republicans.

[00:31:20] And then there was one Democrat for a while

[00:31:22] and then about four years ago,

[00:31:24] the Democrat party swept the entire judiciary

[00:31:27] in her astounding wow.

[00:31:28] It handled all the misdemeanor cases and all of that

[00:31:31] and so all of it changed dramatically as a result of that.

[00:31:34] And so yeah, it was, it is an aberration in Texas

[00:31:36] but you can imagine everybody else in Texas is like

[00:31:38] we don't want to be like Houston

[00:31:39] and they're running legislation to try to

[00:31:42] cities of three billion and more have to comply

[00:31:44] and they're doing everything they can

[00:31:45] to try to crack down on the crime communities.

[00:31:48] All of those people were people that fled California

[00:31:50] because it was too expensive and too crime ridden

[00:31:53] and they went to Houston

[00:31:55] but then they didn't like their Republicans

[00:31:57] so then they ran for office and overturned it

[00:31:59] and now they're just getting more of what they fled.

[00:32:01] So I'm just kidding, I don't know that for a comment.

[00:32:04] No, now they're moving to Nashville

[00:32:05] and we have to deal with them over there.

[00:32:07] Right.

[00:32:09] Now there's bail issues in Nashville.

[00:32:13] So in turn, that's an interesting topic about red states

[00:32:17] that are have cities that are democratically controlled.

[00:32:21] Is there any other example like Houston

[00:32:23] where like even a red state that you would think

[00:32:26] they're not going to let people get away with this?

[00:32:28] There are these little local and shout out

[00:32:32] to what we always say on this podcast,

[00:32:33] local elections matter.

[00:32:36] Are there any other examples of like cities

[00:32:38] or localities that do this?

[00:32:40] Big bad Ron DeSantis, I mean Florida, Miami, Dade County

[00:32:44] had a big bail reform going on down there.

[00:32:45] The judges were issuing a new policy

[00:32:47] and it was about to go into effect

[00:32:49] and this was during the campaign.

[00:32:50] He, to his credit, loaded up all his people

[00:32:54] and went down and had a press conference

[00:32:55] on the steps of the courthouse calling for it to stop

[00:32:57] and scared him out of it.

[00:33:00] And so there's constant pressure in Florida

[00:33:01] between Miami and some of the cities

[00:33:05] and the state capital there.

[00:33:06] So that's another one that you see that a lot in.

[00:33:09] Certainly Tennessee to a certain extent is one

[00:33:11] because Nashville, you see that in Idaho quite a bit

[00:33:14] because Boise is, you have a lot of California

[00:33:16] smooth with Boise and Boise is turning liberal

[00:33:18] where these very, very conservative people,

[00:33:22] primarily former LAPD members are moving up there

[00:33:24] in the rural areas, driving the conservative policies

[00:33:27] up in Idaho.

[00:33:28] So you do see some of these states

[00:33:30] where you've got that conservative legislature

[00:33:33] and liberal cities that that adds quite a bit.

[00:33:37] How much does, let's just say a district attorney,

[00:33:44] how much say do they have policies

[00:33:50] in terms of prosecuting?

[00:33:52] Because here in California, you may think like,

[00:33:54] oh, your hands are tied.

[00:33:56] You can't really do anything.

[00:33:57] But I can tell you from experience,

[00:34:01] our DA here in San Diego County is way better

[00:34:05] than George Gascon in LA.

[00:34:09] And you can see a difference in the crime

[00:34:11] in San Diego and LA.

[00:34:12] So how much do people need to know that like,

[00:34:16] hey, pay attention to who your DA is

[00:34:18] because that makes a big difference.

[00:34:21] It makes a huge difference.

[00:34:22] And you're right about San Diego,

[00:34:23] that's always been a good district attorney's office.

[00:34:25] And it's been a fair district attorney's office.

[00:34:28] And for example, if you look at the bond sizes

[00:34:31] in San Diego versus LA, the bails are lower,

[00:34:34] but yet they have better results.

[00:34:36] So they're just a successful office.

[00:34:39] Now let's look at what's going on in Los Angeles.

[00:34:41] Why is George Gascon an example

[00:34:44] of how things can go wrong?

[00:34:46] He's disabling his deputies from doing the job.

[00:34:48] The deputies that meet with victims of crime,

[00:34:51] to hear them, he's disabling them from doing that.

[00:34:54] He's telling his deputies

[00:34:56] that they cannot seek a bail in certain cases.

[00:34:58] When the victims' rights act, I mean,

[00:35:01] Marcy's law says you have to hear from the victim first.

[00:35:03] He's prejudging cases with policies in place.

[00:35:07] And that goes for all the strikes,

[00:35:08] the enhancers and all this sort of thing

[00:35:11] that he's removed from the deputies ability to see.

[00:35:14] Justice has to be a case by case basis.

[00:35:16] And we have policies in district attorneys' offices like that.

[00:35:21] It just stops justice from being had one way or the other.

[00:35:23] I mean, it's just indefensible.

[00:35:25] The funny thing about the bail policy is,

[00:35:27] he issued a press release saying

[00:35:29] that he had spent all this time evaluating the bail policy.

[00:35:32] But when we looked at the date of the policy,

[00:35:34] it was like the day the election was won.

[00:35:36] There was no contemplation.

[00:35:38] They knew from the outset

[00:35:39] that they were just gonna set these policies

[00:35:42] to drive an agenda.

[00:35:43] And in doing so,

[00:35:46] they divorced themselves from case by case basis.

[00:35:48] And that's where justice has to happen.

[00:35:49] You have to talk to the victims.

[00:35:50] You have to go in and assess the facts of every case.

[00:35:53] And it's just sad that they got away from that.

[00:35:55] And the polls show them down by 20 points right now.

[00:35:57] And certainly got smoked into the primary.

[00:35:59] I mean, yeah, 78% of Angelitos voting for somebody else.

[00:36:03] That's bad news of your own self.

[00:36:04] Hodgeman seems to be ahead of them.

[00:36:07] And even Hodgeman to say. Good.

[00:36:09] I think Trump's negatives are probably lower

[00:36:12] than George Gascon to Los Angeles right now

[00:36:15] to give you how bad it is.

[00:36:17] I think Trump would pull better.

[00:36:20] So he's gonna have a heck of a time

[00:36:22] trying to convince people

[00:36:23] that he's handling the crime problem right now,

[00:36:24] or it has any plan to handle the crime problem right now.

[00:36:27] And I think this on like any other year

[00:36:29] will be a vote of thumbs out of office year.

[00:36:33] I don't think, we were talking about

[00:36:35] the primary down in Houston.

[00:36:37] We didn't think Sam Houston could run

[00:36:38] the primary down there.

[00:36:39] It just whoever was in office,

[00:36:41] we have a crime problem, we don't like it, you're out.

[00:36:43] And I think that may even go for the presidency.

[00:36:46] Like we just don't like how things are going, you're gone.

[00:36:48] But obviously that's a little more complicated race

[00:36:50] for various reasons.

[00:36:52] Yeah, we just saw in California.

[00:36:54] I mean, we just saw.

[00:36:57] Did I phrase it?

[00:36:58] Yes, he did.

[00:36:59] Where am I back?

[00:37:00] Well, I actually had a question about

[00:37:04] how much do you think inflation

[00:37:06] is contributing to petty theft right now?

[00:37:12] You know, I see it's the quality of life stuff.

[00:37:16] You know, the grocery store type of theft

[00:37:18] and theft of things like, you know,

[00:37:22] razors and shaving cream and stuff like that.

[00:37:25] I think it does have an impact.

[00:37:27] I think it is harder, you know,

[00:37:28] the working class is having a harder time.

[00:37:29] I think it does have a slight impact,

[00:37:31] but that's not really the driving factor

[00:37:33] of what's happening.

[00:37:34] I think this is a whole nother generational thing,

[00:37:38] perhaps where we just say,

[00:37:40] this is one thing where, you know,

[00:37:42] we don't prosecute people and it's cool.

[00:37:44] It's okay to just take what you need

[00:37:47] because it's the big corporate jerks

[00:37:49] and we don't care about them

[00:37:51] and we're just not gonna worry about it.

[00:37:52] So I think it's bigger.

[00:37:54] So I don't think it's, you know,

[00:37:55] they're stealing bread, they're trying

[00:37:57] to feed their families.

[00:37:57] I think some are and I do think it has an impact

[00:37:59] but I don't think it's what's driving this current

[00:38:02] to reach out to the government.

[00:38:05] So I think that in my back, did I unfreeze?

[00:38:09] Okay, that happens from time to time.

[00:38:13] The question I had is,

[00:38:14] I mean, we just saw Chesa Boe Dean was recalled,

[00:38:17] which was great news.

[00:38:19] And now we see Pamela Price, like to your point

[00:38:22] that vote the Bums out,

[00:38:23] Pamela Price is now being recalled as well.

[00:38:27] Oh, did I?

[00:38:28] Yes, you cut out right after Pamela Price.

[00:38:32] Pamela Price is now being recalled as well.

[00:38:35] So like you said, there is kind of this push to vote them out,

[00:38:40] which is interesting even in California.

[00:38:44] Yeah, and there's nationally

[00:38:45] is protecting Americans Action Fund,

[00:38:47] which was a national group formed to,

[00:38:50] it's a simple proposition,

[00:38:51] elect prosecutors that want to enforce the law

[00:38:54] and make a judgment.

[00:38:56] And they could be soft on crime

[00:38:58] but just make a judgment in every case.

[00:39:00] Look at the facts enforce the law.

[00:39:02] And that's unfortunately where it's gotten

[00:39:04] is that, we used to always say

[00:39:06] you want your prosecutor to be a little bit of a jerk.

[00:39:08] You need a little jerk in your prosecutor

[00:39:10] because you want them to go a little further than you should

[00:39:12] so that the public defender can come in and stop them

[00:39:14] and the judge can kind of have a good process here.

[00:39:17] But not only do we not have jerks,

[00:39:19] we have people that just don't even wanna do the job.

[00:39:22] And I don't know how they've taken oath

[00:39:24] to uphold the law and then just not uphold the law.

[00:39:26] I don't know how they reconcile that in their minds,

[00:39:29] but that's really what we're looking for now,

[00:39:31] unfortunately is somebody wants to be a prosecutor.

[00:39:34] I would have made a terrible prosecutor

[00:39:35] so I never would have done that.

[00:39:37] But at this point, even I could get in the ring

[00:39:40] because I'm just willing to enforce the law

[00:39:42] and make the case by case judgment.

[00:39:47] So we got a couple minutes left.

[00:39:49] Why don't you give us a little bit more

[00:39:52] about American Bail Coalition where people can find you

[00:39:55] and like what are your next steps

[00:39:57] and what are you guys working on?

[00:39:58] Give us a little summary.

[00:40:00] Absolutely, ambailcollection.org is probably the best place.

[00:40:03] We're on what was Twitter.

[00:40:05] I still wish it was Twitter as well.

[00:40:09] What do we really work on?

[00:40:10] I think the thing that's really going on right now

[00:40:12] in California that nobody is paying attention to

[00:40:13] is Los Angeles.

[00:40:15] There's big litigation, big lawsuit over

[00:40:17] whether the bail schedule was unconstitutional

[00:40:20] because people couldn't afford their bail

[00:40:21] and that was unfair.

[00:40:23] And so the judges reacted to that

[00:40:25] and really what they did was create a review procedure

[00:40:29] for people where we said,

[00:40:30] well, we're going to assume you're going to get out for free

[00:40:32] and now we're going to take a look at it.

[00:40:34] And that way we don't have to subject you

[00:40:35] to the horrors of a bail schedule.

[00:40:37] Unfortunately, what's happening is

[00:40:39] people are parked in jail for days now

[00:40:41] because the system's not keeping up.

[00:40:44] And so what we're seeing is people that can afford bail

[00:40:47] now are getting ensnared along with the people that can't.

[00:40:51] And so we've just,

[00:40:53] we're compounded the problem in Los Angeles.

[00:40:55] So we're continuing to follow what's happening with that.

[00:40:58] There is some legislation in California going on right now

[00:41:02] dealing with how quickly hearings are gonna happen

[00:41:05] in terms of bail review in California.

[00:41:07] So hopefully a deal will be made on this.

[00:41:09] Due process in California is too slow, right?

[00:41:11] And talking to the Democratic majority,

[00:41:12] they want to shrink that down and that makes sense.

[00:41:15] In Florida you get within judge within 24 hours

[00:41:16] to argue your bail decrease.

[00:41:18] California that could take a little longer than that.

[00:41:20] So I think everybody wants to shrink that.

[00:41:22] And so we'll continue to be working on that

[00:41:24] throughout the summer and see if legislators

[00:41:26] want to make a deal and more importantly,

[00:41:28] do they want to put their money where their mouth is

[00:41:30] and fund the system to do all the new hearings

[00:41:33] that will happen as a result of all this.

[00:41:34] So it'll be a busy summer.

[00:41:37] Yeah, like you said, it's a busy election year

[00:41:39] and it might be a big vote the bums out

[00:41:41] because crimes up, inflation's up and all that.

[00:41:43] So it might just be a huge upheaval election

[00:41:46] that we're facing right now.

[00:41:48] So.

[00:41:49] Absolutely, I think you're gonna see a lot of incumbents

[00:41:51] being dust out for that reason.

[00:41:53] And then the presidential,

[00:41:56] we'll wait for the October surprise and see how that goes.

[00:42:00] I mean, we even saw in San Francisco

[00:42:03] they voted for more police power, not less,

[00:42:06] which who would have thought in San Francisco

[00:42:08] they voted for more police power

[00:42:10] not shrinking police power.

[00:42:12] So they're going in the opposite direction

[00:42:13] even in San Francisco.

[00:42:15] I know and unfortunately,

[00:42:17] hopefully it's not too late to say

[00:42:18] of what I consider to be a really great city.

[00:42:20] I mean, hopefully they can turn things around.

[00:42:23] But I think it's gonna take years.

[00:42:24] I don't think you can just turn the switch on this

[00:42:27] and say there's a new sheriff in town.

[00:42:29] Yeah.

[00:42:30] I think it's gonna take a long time

[00:42:31] of sending the signal and also the drug problems.

[00:42:34] The issues with all these drugs

[00:42:37] it's totally different than when we were growing up.

[00:42:40] It's all different ball game that you can die

[00:42:43] with the amount of lead on the tip of a pencil

[00:42:46] can kill multiple people.

[00:42:47] I mean, that's just scary.

[00:42:48] But that's what's going on.

[00:42:49] And the cartels and all the other stuff going on.

[00:42:52] It's a multi-year major problem.

[00:42:54] Look at what's happened in Oregon.

[00:42:55] Legalize all drugs, reverse that.

[00:42:56] And just determine, hey, we gotta do something.

[00:42:59] We just can't get these.

[00:43:00] We don't have some kind of a hammer

[00:43:03] to force people to do something for their own good.

[00:43:06] Then we just determine

[00:43:08] we can't do anything for these people.

[00:43:10] It is a humanitarian crisis

[00:43:11] and we do need to do something.

[00:43:13] And part of that unfortunately gonna be law enforcement.

[00:43:16] Respect the police.

[00:43:17] Let's get them out there.

[00:43:18] Let's make sure they're not biased or a lot of sort of thing

[00:43:21] but we are gonna have to send a signal

[00:43:24] that society's not gonna put up the best.

[00:43:27] And I think that's what people want right now.

[00:43:30] Well, Jeff, thank you for coming on

[00:43:31] and talking about this issue

[00:43:33] that I didn't know a lot about

[00:43:35] and I learned a lot tonight.

[00:43:36] Camille, I think learned a lot as well

[00:43:38] about bail that we both didn't know.

[00:43:40] One more time where people can find you guys

[00:43:43] and support you guys before we sign off.

[00:43:46] Absolutely, bandailcollection.org or look for us on X.

[00:43:52] Great.

[00:43:53] As we end every show, thank you guys for tuning in.

[00:43:55] Make sure to like, share, subscribe, review.

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[00:43:59] Best way to support this show that is absolutely free

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[00:44:06] And with that said, we'll see you on the next one.

[00:44:10] Have a good night, everybody.

[00:44:12] Thank you for listening to another episode

[00:44:14] of California Underground.

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